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Lens Blur	Catholic Works		Lead	[-]
Posts: 541 11/04/09 13:38:11	Tags : None People who have been born into a Christian environment think they can get to heaven by performing Christian deeds. When told that they are lost, and that their good deeds are misdeeds in God's eyes, most react with indignance because they think they do not need Jesus personally. *Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.* John 6:28-29 The Great Delusion Midnight Call . . . and the Catholic thinks they understand the book of James. This is a good read.
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DougErd		#1	[url]	[-]
Posts: 4393 11/04/09 19:29:53 Moderator	. . . and the Catholic thinks they understand the book of James. ----- Those who follow the teachings of the Catholic Church, when they attempt to use Scripture, will distort it to their own destruction. Not only with James, but nearly every part of Scripture. That is why they believe the Catholic Church thinking their works somehow become part of the salvation process, because they reject the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
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baydoll		#2	[url]	[-]
Posts: 19221 11/05/09 06:52:57 Moderator	well actually, they just LOVE LOVE LOVE James 2:17 even though they mangle it beyond recognition from it's original meaning.
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Sid2		#3	[url]	[-]
Posts: 12006 11/05/09 08:29:39	baydoll wrote: well actually, they just LOVE LOVE LOVE James 2:17 even though they mangle it beyond recognition from it's original meaning. While John 3:16 is probably the most familiar verse for Christians. . . . . . James 2:17 and 24 are probably the most remembered verses for Catholics. Just goes to demonstrate that so little of Catholicism is about Christianity and so much of it is Catholic denominational agenda and distinctive.
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Had2.catholicchurcha...		#4	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1619 11/05/09 13:26:55	Goes to show how some people think they don't have to do anything to gain salvation except believe in Jesus meanwhile Jesus's whole life was about doing good things for others. It appears some here have disregarded the following in the book of Matthew although they preach they live by the Gospels! Matthew 25:31-46: "When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate them one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, and he will place the sheep at his right hand, but the goats at the left. Then the King will say to those at his right hand, `Come, O blessed of my father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.' Then the righteous will answer him, `Lord, when did we see thee hungry and feed thee, or thirsty and give thee drink? And when did we see thee a stranger and welcome thee, or naked and clothe thee? And when did we see thee sick or in prison and visit thee?' And the King will answer them, `Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me.' Then he will say to those at his left hand, `Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.' Then they also will answer, `Lord, when did we see thee hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to thee?' Then he will answer them, `Truly, I say to you, as you did it not to one of the least of these, you did it not to me.' And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
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Ruth116		#5	[url]	[-]
Posts: 7878 11/05/09 14:06:00	Had2 wrote: Goes to show how some people think they don't have to do anything to gain salvation except believe in Jesus meanwhile Jesus's whole life was about doing good things for others. It appears some here have disregarded the following in the book of Matthew although they preach they live by the Gospels! Matthew 25:31-46: "When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate them one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, and he will place the sheep at his right hand, but the goats at the left. Then the King will say to those at his right hand, `Come, O blessed of my father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.' Then the righteous will answer him, `Lord, when did we see thee hungry and feed thee, or thirsty and give thee drink? And when did we see thee a stranger and welcome thee, or naked and clothe thee? And when did we see thee sick or in prison and visit thee?' And the King will answer them, `Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me.' Then he will say to those at his left hand, `Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.' Then they also will answer, `Lord, when did we see thee hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to thee?' Then he will answer them, `Truly, I say to you, as you did it not to one of the least of these, you did it not to me.' And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." And you do know that Jesus is referring to how believers and unbelievers treat Israel, right?
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Had2.catholicchurcha...		#6	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1619 11/05/09 18:09:02	Oh get real Ruth Jesus is showing the whole world how to live not just Israel. We are to try and walk in his shoes the best we can.. if you can't see that throw your Bible away because you have no clue as to what the message Jesus is saying in Matthew 25 plus Matthew 19 Matthew 19- 21 Jesus saith to him: If thou wilt be perfect, go sell what thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come follow me. 22 And when the young man had heard this word, he went away sad: for he had great possessions. 23 Then Jesus said to his disciples: Amen, I say to you, that a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. 24 And again I say to you: It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of heaven.
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Ruth116		#7	[url]	[-]
Posts: 7878 11/05/09 18:51:34	His brethren Haddy laddie, refers to the Jews. So when read in context of what is coming and who is center stage in the Middle East during the Tribulation, it is quite easy to see. Your reference and the one I was addressing is the Olivet Discourse and IF you go back to chapter 24 where that discourse actually begins you would see He was answering three separate questions that the disciples asked. Hence the response I gave. And your second reference Matt 19 has nothing to do with the former posts.
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Had2.catholicchurcha...		#8	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1619 11/05/09 19:40:44	Oh give it up. Read what it says instead of putting your idiotic spin on the text.
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Ruth116		#9	[url]	[-]
Posts: 7878 11/05/09 21:44:05	Had2 wrote: Oh give it up. Read what it says instead of putting your idiotic spin on the text. You give it up with your RCC rewrite of the Bible and history.
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DougErd		#10	[url]	[-]
Posts: 4393 11/05/09 21:48:24 Moderator	Had wrote: Goes to show how some people think they don't have to do anything to gain salvation except believe in Jesus meanwhile Jesus's whole life was about doing good things for others. ------- The reason Jesus was on this earth was to save people from sin. Something that the Catholic Church rejects.
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Had2.catholicchurcha...		#11	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1619 11/05/09 22:38:35	You are so off track about charity in the Bible it's laughable. Col-3 14 But above all these things have charity, which is the bond of perfection: 15 And let the peace of Christ rejoice in your hearts, wherein also you are called in one body: and be ye thankful.
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a heretic		#12	[url]	[-]
Posts: 580 11/05/09 22:43:26	The quotes catholics like to use to support works for salvation are the things Jesus said prior to his death........ Humanity was still under the law, not grace. Remember catholics, Jesus died to pay for our sins, something our works can never do.
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baydoll		#13	[url]	[-]
Posts: 19221 11/06/09 08:21:18 Moderator	Had2 wrote: Oh get real Ruth Jesus is showing the whole world how to live not just Israel. We are to try and walk in his shoes the best we can.. if you can't see that throw your Bible away because you have no clue as to what the message Jesus is saying in Matthew 25 plus Matthew 19 Matthew 19- 21 Jesus saith to him: If thou wilt be perfect, go sell what thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come follow me. 22 And when the young man had heard this word, he went away sad: for he had great possessions. 23 Then Jesus said to his disciples: Amen, I say to you, that a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. 24 And again I say to you: It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of heaven. So where are the sacraments in that, Had?
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baydoll		#14	[url]	[-]
Posts: 19221 11/06/09 08:22:29 Moderator	a heretic wrote: The quotes catholics like to use to support works for salvation are the things Jesus said prior to his death........ Humanity was still under the law, not grace. Remember catholics, Jesus died to pay for our sins, something our works can never do. Amen.
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David Davies		#15	[url]	[-]
Posts: 4822 11/26/09 22:27:26	^{²⁸"What do you think? There was a man who had two sons. He went to the first and said, 'Son, go and work today in the vineyard.'} ^{²⁹" 'I will not,' he answered, but later he changed his mind and went.} ³⁰"Then the father went to the other son and said the same thing. He answered, 'I will, sir,' but he did not go. ³¹"Which of the two did what his father wanted?" "The first," they answered. Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you. ³²For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him. Matthew 21, 28-32. Our 'works' constitute our answer to God's offer of salvation. What we do speaks louder than what we say. The 'works' themselves do not save us. They say "Yes!" to God, who does save us.
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Ruth116		#16	[url]	[-]
Posts: 7878 11/26/09 23:10:25	David Davies wrote: ^{²⁸"What do you think? There was a man who had two sons. He went to the first and said, 'Son, go and work today in the vineyard.'} ^{²⁹" 'I will not,' he answered, but later he changed his mind and went.} ³⁰"Then the father went to the other son and said the same thing. He answered, 'I will, sir,' but he did not go. ³¹"Which of the two did what his father wanted?" "The first," they answered. Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you. ³²For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him. Matthew 21, 28-32. Our 'works' constitute our answer to God's offer of salvation. What we do speaks louder than what we say. The 'works' themselves do not save us. They say "Yes!" to God, who does save us. No. Our works are the evidence of God's Salvation, we already accepted the offer. You guys are workin' for it, Jesus already did it and that settles it. Big difference.
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Had2		#17	[url]	[-]
Posts: 248 11/27/09 09:16:38	So are you saying works are fruitless? James-2-26 26 For even as the body without the spirit is dead; so also faith without works is dead.
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Sid2		#18	[url]	[-]
Posts: 12006 11/27/09 12:26:28	Had2 wrote: So are you saying works are fruitless? James-2-26 26 For even as the body without the spirit is dead; so also faith without works is dead. It might surprise some Catholics that Christians believe, like James, that those justified by faith alone will exhibit good works and be a changed person as a result: the Holy Spirit guarantees as much (cf. 1John 3:6, 3:9). But a changed life and good works are the consequence of authentic faith, they contribute nothing to salvation. . . . rewards, now that is a completely different manner, a distinction that the Roman Catholic Church is incapable of getting.
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Had2		#19	[url]	[-]
Posts: 248 11/27/09 22:30:28	Hmm some call themselves true christians yet they also believe abortion is good works. 1 John also says- 18 My little children, let us not love in word, nor in tongue, but in deed, and in truth. Eccles 12 1 If thou do good, know to whom thou dost it, and there shall be much thanks for thy good deeds. 2 Do good to the just, and thou shalt find great recompense: and if not of him, assuredly of the Lord. 3 For there is no good for him that is always occupied in evil, and that giveth no alms: for the Highest hateth sinners, and hath mercy on the penitent. 4 Give to the merciful and uphold not the sinner: God will repay vengeance to the ungodly and to sinners, and keep them against the day of vengeance
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Sid2		#20	[url]	[-]
Posts: 12006 11/27/09 22:53:44	Had2 wrote: Hmm some call themselves true christians yet they also believe abortion is good works. . . . sorta like the 54% of Catholics who saw no problem with voting for BHO and the party of abortion, gay marriage and amnesty?
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