Ancestrial Worship turned into Saint Worship?

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ChuckT	Ancestrial Worship turned into Saint Worship?		Lead	[-]
Posts: 31 10/29/09 17:40:28	Tags : None A pastor on the radio said that ancester worship has been changed into saint worship. What are the pro and cons on this subject? Do we know the truth?
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baydoll		#1	[url]	[-]
Posts: 19221 10/30/09 03:55:52 Moderator	What pastor, Chuck?
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ChuckT		#2	[url]	[-]
Posts: 31 10/30/09 07:23:11	I don't wish to say his name on the internet. This is what the cached version of encarta said: Ancestor worship - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Ancestor worship, more appropriately called ancestor veneration in some cases, is a practice based on http://au.encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761555755/Ancestor_Worship.html What is the difference between ancestor veneration and the veneration of saints? Ancestor Worship, reverence granted to deceased relatives who are believed to have become powerful spiritual beings or, less frequently, to have attained the status of gods. It is based on the belief that ancestors are active members of society, still interested in the affairs of their living relatives. The cult of ancestors is common, although not universal. It has been extensively documented in West African societies (the Bantu and the Shona), in Polynesia and Melanesia (the Dobu and the Manus), among several Indo-European peoples (the ancient Scandinavians and Germans), and especially in China and Japan. In general, ancestors are believed to wield great authority, having special powers to influence the course of events or to control the well-being of their living relatives. Protection of the family is one of their main concerns. They are considered intermediaries between the supreme god, or the gods, and the people, and can communicate with the living through dreams and by possession. The attitude towards them is one of mixed fear and reverence. If neglected, the ancestors may cause disease and other misfortunes. Propitiation, supplication, prayer, and sacrifice are various ways in which the living can communicate with their ancestors. Ancestor worship is a strong indication of the value placed on the household and of the strong ties that exist between the past and the present. The beliefs and practices connected with the cult help to integrate the family, to sanction the traditional political structure, and to encourage respect for living elders. Some scholars have also interpreted it as a source of individual well-being and of social harmony and stability. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veneration Apotheosis From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to: navigation, search See also: Divinization Apotheosis (from Greek ἀποθεόω, apotheoō "to deify", later the Italian gióvino, "to be made divine"^[1]), refers to the exaltation of a subject to divine level. The term has meanings in theology, where it refers to a belief, and in art, where it refers to a genre. In theology the term apotheosis refers to the idea that an individual, group, or locale has been raised to godlike stature. In art the term refers to the treatment of any subject (a figure, motif, convention or melody) in a particularly grand or exalted manner http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apotheosis Last Edited By: ChuckT 10/30/09 07:25:20. Edited 1 time.
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baydoll		#3	[url]	[-]
Posts: 19221 10/30/09 07:33:48 Moderator	well what church/denom does he belong to?
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ChuckT		#4	[url]	[-]
Posts: 31 10/30/09 07:40:02	A Calvary Chapel in New Jersey.
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Ruth116		#5	[url]	[-]
Posts: 7878 10/30/09 14:27:30	Oh, one of the ones gone apostate? Emergent? New Age? Are we surprised? Not a chance.
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Ruth116		#6	[url]	[-]
Posts: 7878 10/30/09 15:41:40	ChuckT wrote: A Calvary Chapel in New Jersey. Ya know Chuck, I have looked at 10 CC sites in New Jersey and searched for this teaching you claim, but I could not find one hint of it. So you had better reveal which one so we can at least hear or read it for ourselves. In fact if one plugs in "ancestor worship", you will go through 10 pages and not find one link to a CC. LOL
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Lens Blur		#7	[url]	[-]
Posts: 541 10/30/09 15:41:55	ChuckT wrote: A pastor on the radio said that ancester worship has been changed into saint worship. What are the pro and cons on this subject? Do we know the truth? Is this a question, or part of the quote? Obviously worshiping anyone other than God is wrong. Is this preacher promoting, or simply explaining? ChuckT wrote: I don't wish to say his name on the internet. I respect your discretion, but I would think you should name names. This person was on the radio, making the choice to have his words heard in the public arena. Likewise, we need to judge who we hear based on what they say.
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ChuckT		#8	[url]	[-]
Posts: 31 10/31/09 11:50:22	Ruth116 wrote: Oh, one of the ones gone apostate? Emergent? New Age? Are we surprised? Not a chance. The inquisition came up in another forum under another topic. I have a book by an author and I'm supposed to be guilty by association with this teacher but those who want to blame the teacher are also the ones who can't answer the questions in his Bible study book. I've spent hours on the Bible study book. The author is an educator, started a school is degreed, etc. Those who want to blame him haven't done anything but try to give me stress.
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ChuckT		#9	[url]	[-]
Posts: 31 10/31/09 11:55:46	Lens Blur wrote: ChuckT wrote: A pastor on the radio said that ancester worship has been changed into saint worship. What are the pro and cons on this subject? Do we know the truth? Is this a question, or part of the quote? Obviously worshiping anyone other than God is wrong. Is this preacher promoting, or simply explaining? ChuckT wrote: I don't wish to say his name on the internet. I respect your discretion, but I would think you should name names. This person was on the radio, making the choice to have his words heard in the public arena. Likewise, we need to judge who we hear based on what they say. It is a question I came up with. We need to judge on what basis? The Bible says to judge righteous judgment (John 7:24) and since all have us have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God (Romans 3:24), we would be judging the teacher based on the research we haven't done and none of us are righteous in and of ourselves apart from the righteousness which Christ imputes to us.
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Ruth116		#10	[url]	[-]
Posts: 7878 10/31/09 12:17:25	We cannot investigate the Scriptures UNLESS we know the context in which this person you refer to speaks. It is not wise to withhold that information UNLESS one is hiding something. Now Chuck, unless you give us the name of the CC in question or the person who supposedly addressed this subject we can just disregard your op as nonsense.
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ChuckT		#11	[url]	[-]
Posts: 31 10/31/09 14:27:15	Ruth116 wrote: We cannot investigate the Scriptures UNLESS we know the context in which this person you refer to speaks. It is not wise to withhold that information UNLESS one is hiding something. Now Chuck, unless you give us the name of the CC in question or the person who supposedly addressed this subject we can just disregard your op as nonsense. You're not investigating scripture. You're investigating the pastor and you're not investigating whether ancestor worship has been changed into saint worship which also isn't scripture. If you lived in a pristine environment that hasn't been infected with paganism then Halloween wouldn't be today, you wouldn't be using a calendar based on pagan days and you wouldn't be worshipping Christmas on Saturnalia. So you all have a calendar based on paganism: Moon's Day, Tew's Day, Woden's Day, Thor's Day, Frei's Day, Saturn's Day. It would be more nonsense to think the calendar you carry around or use hasn't been influenced by paganism. I won't participate in your witch hunt.
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Ruth116		#12	[url]	[-]
Posts: 7878 10/31/09 14:37:36	ChuckT wrote: Ruth116 wrote: We cannot investigate the Scriptures UNLESS we know the context in which this person you refer to speaks. It is not wise to withhold that information UNLESS one is hiding something. Now Chuck, unless you give us the name of the CC in question or the person who supposedly addressed this subject we can just disregard your op as nonsense. You're not investigating scripture. You're investigating the pastor and you're not investigating whether ancestor worship has been changed into saint worship which also isn't scripture. If you lived in a pristine environment that hasn't been infected with paganism then Halloween wouldn't be today, you wouldn't be using a calendar based on pagan days and you wouldn't be worshipping Christmas on Saturnalia. So you all have a calendar based on paganism: Moon's Day, Tew's Day, Woden's Day, Thor's Day, Frei's Day, Saturn's Day. It would be more nonsense to think the calendar you carry around or use hasn't been influenced by paganism. I won't participate in your witch hunt. I want to know what the man said, so I can compare it with what God's Word says. I do not have to take your word for anything. No witch hunt here, I want the true context in which this was spoken. That's pretty simple. Oh and by the way o' man, how do you know what holy days I celebrate? Just because the majority of "Chritendumb" celebrates all those things you mentioned does not mean that all true Christians do. There are a few of us here who do not. Especially this particular day. When did you become omniscient?
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ChuckT		#13	[url]	[-]
Posts: 31 10/31/09 14:40:31	Ruth116 wrote: I want to know what the man said, so I can compare it with what God's Word says. I do not have to take your word for anything. No witch hunt here, I want the true context in which this was spoken. That's pretty simple. Oh and by the way o' man, how do you know what holy days I celebrate? Just because the majority of "Chritendumb" celebrates all those things you mentioned does not mean that all true Christians do. There are a few of us here who do not. Especially this particular day. When did you become omniscient? Ruth, Do you have a calendar? Chuck
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Ruth116		#14	[url]	[-]
Posts: 7878 10/31/09 14:44:13	ChuckT wrote: Ruth116 wrote: I want to know what the man said, so I can compare it with what God's Word says. I do not have to take your word for anything. No witch hunt here, I want the true context in which this was spoken. That's pretty simple. Oh and by the way o' man, how do you know what holy days I celebrate? Just because the majority of "Chritendumb" celebrates all those things you mentioned does not mean that all true Christians do. There are a few of us here who do not. Especially this particular day. When did you become omniscient? Ruth, Do you have a calendar? Chuck Actually I use the Hebrew Calendar and it is hanging in my kitchen.
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ChuckT		#15	[url]	[-]
Posts: 31 10/31/09 14:48:47	I decided to premptively leave the forum.
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Ruth116		#16	[url]	[-]
Posts: 7878 10/31/09 15:22:48	see ya
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baydoll		#17	[url]	[-]
Posts: 19221 11/01/09 07:26:28 Moderator	ChuckT wrote: It is a question I came up with. We need to judge on what basis? The Bible says to judge righteous judgment (John 7:24) and since all have us have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God (Romans 3:24), we would be judging the teacher based on the research we haven't done and none of us are righteous in and of ourselves apart from the righteousness which Christ imputes to us. If a minister of God is teaching error, we need to warn those who are in his care so they will not fall victim to his errors. In order to do this, we need to say WHO HE (or she) IS, otherwise what good would this do? So if we can not "judge the teacher" how are we to discern the wolves from the true sheep? Have people guess? All this does is create confusion. Go back and read the Apostle Paul's letter and see how often he named NAMES, for Pete's sakes. He wasn't judging, he was exposing heresy. Something to which we should ALL do especially in these last days of the lukewarm church with its many wolves/leaders. Last Edited By: baydoll 11/01/09 07:29:32. Edited 1 time.
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baydoll		#18	[url]	[-]
Posts: 19221 11/01/09 07:32:53 Moderator	Lens Blur wrote: ChuckT wrote: I respect your discretion, but I would think you should name names. This person was on the radio, making the choice to have his words heard in the public arena. Likewise, we need to judge who we hear based on what they say. Exactly. Very nicely stated, Lens. Sitting back and not naming names is how heresy is spread and runs amuck. Which is precisely what these wolves want.
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Tan2Day		#19	[url]	[-]
Posts: 23428 11/01/09 08:15:02 Main "Foot Washer"	Ruth116 wrote: Actually I use the Hebrew Calendar and it is hanging in my kitchen. The one with TAMMUZ on it? Hehehehehe, sorry, couldn't resist.
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Ruth116		#20	[url]	[-]
Posts: 7878 11/01/09 11:56:55	Yes it contains Tamuz, and I did read an explanation as to why it is in there, give me some time, I have to look it up.
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