What is Faith?

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Sid2		#21	[url]	[-]
Posts: 11850 06/30/09 14:26:12	Attira wrote: The Catholic Church teaches that its faith plus works, plus a bunch of other things, just for the hope of salvation. Don't you know the faith you pretend to embrace???????? The discussion is about you Doug, because you keep bringing it back to your lack of knowledge about Catholicism by your erroneous statements. Straight from the CCC: We can therefore hope in the glory of heaven promised by God to those who love him and do his will. In every circumstance, each one of us should hope, with the grace of God, to persevere "to the end" and to obtain the joy of heaven, as God's eternal reward for the good works accomplished with the grace of Christ. CCC 1821 Catholics believe that they are participating, maintaining or contributing to their salvation by their good works and participation in religious rituals. The RC gospel of fear, guilt and legalisms is crack cocaine for the religiously addicted.
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DougErd		#22	[url]	[-]
Posts: 4379 06/30/09 20:10:23 Moderator	Sid2 wrote: Attira wrote: The Catholic Church teaches that its faith plus works, plus a bunch of other things, just for the hope of salvation. Don't you know the faith you pretend to embrace???????? The discussion is about you Doug, because you keep bringing it back to your lack of knowledge about Catholicism by your erroneous statements. Straight from the CCC: We can therefore hope in the glory of heaven promised by God to those who love him and do his will. In every circumstance, each one of us should hope, with the grace of God, to persevere "to the end" and to obtain the joy of heaven, as God's eternal reward for the good works accomplished with the grace of Christ. CCC 1821 Catholics believe that they are participating, maintaining or contributing to their salvation by their good works and participation in religious rituals. The RC gospel of fear, guilt and legalisms is crack cocaine for the religiously addicted. ..... just another lay Catholic internet apologist who doesn't even know the faith he pretends to embrace.
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Attira		#23	[url]	[-]
Posts: 260 06/30/09 22:10:53	Sid2 wrote: Attira wrote: The Catholic Church teaches that its faith plus works, plus a bunch of other things, just for the hope of salvation. Don't you know the faith you pretend to embrace???????? The discussion is about you Doug, because you keep bringing it back to your lack of knowledge about Catholicism by your erroneous statements. Straight from the CCC: We can therefore hope in the glory of heaven promised by God to those who love him and do his will. In every circumstance, each one of us should hope, with the grace of God, to persevere "to the end" and to obtain the joy of heaven, as God's eternal reward for the good works accomplished with the grace of Christ. CCC 1821 Catholics believe that they are participating, maintaining or contributing to their salvation by their good works and participation in religious rituals. The RC gospel of fear, guilt and legalisms is crack cocaine for the religiously addicted. How sadly ironic - to you, the virtue of Hope is seen as a "gospel of fear, guilt and legalisms." However, the paragraph you have posted does not support your claim that Catholics believe they must earn their way into heaven. It is from the section on the virtues, and the paragraph you posted is a small snippet of a larger section on Hope: CHAPTER ONE THE DIGNITY OF THE HUMAN PERSON ARTICLE 7 THE VIRTUES 1803 "Whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is gracious, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things."⁶² A virtue is an habitual and firm disposition to do the good. It allows the person not only to perform good acts, but to give the best of himself. The virtuous person tends toward the good with all his sensory and spiritual powers; he pursues the good and chooses it in concrete actions. The goal of a virtuous life is to become like God.⁶³ I. THE HUMAN VIRTUES 1804 Human virtues are firm attitudes, stable dispositions, habitual perfections of intellect and will that govern our actions, order our passions, and guide our conduct according to reason and faith. They make possible ease, self-mastery, and joy in leading a morally good life. The virtuous man is he who freely practices the good. The moral virtues are acquired by human effort. They are the fruit and seed of morally good acts; they dispose all the powers of the human being for communion with divine love. ... The virtues and grace 1810 Human virtues acquired by education, by deliberate acts and by a perseverance ever-renewed in repeated efforts are purified and elevated by divine grace. With God's help, they forge character and give facility in the practice of the good. The virtuous man is happy to practice them. 1811 It is not easy for man, wounded by sin, to maintain moral balance. Christ's gift of salvation offers us the grace necessary to persevere in the pursuit of the virtues. Everyone should always ask for this grace of light and strength, frequent the sacraments, cooperate with the Holy Spirit, and follow his calls to love what is good and shun evil. II. THE THEOLOGICAL VIRTUES 1812 The human virtues are rooted in the theological virtues, which adapt man's faculties for participation in the divine nature:⁷⁶ for the theological virtues relate directly to God. They dispose Christians to live in a relationship with the Holy Trinity. They have the One and Triune God for their origin, motive, and object. 1813 The theological virtues are the foundation of Christian moral activity; they animate it and give it its special character. They inform and give life to all the moral virtues. They are infused by God into the souls of the faithful to make them capable of acting as his children and of meriting eternal life. They are the pledge of the presence and action of the Holy Spirit in the faculties of the human being. There are three theological virtues: faith, hope, and charity.⁷⁷ ... Hope 1817 Hope is the theological virtue by which we desire the kingdom of heaven and eternal life as our happiness, placing our trust in Christ's promises and relying not on our own strength, but on the help of the grace of the Holy Spirit. "Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for he who promised is faithful."⁸⁴ "The Holy Spirit . . . he poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that we might be justified by his grace and become heirs in hope of eternal life."⁸⁵ 1818 The virtue of hope responds to the aspiration to happiness which God has placed in the heart of every man; it takes up the hopes that inspire men's activities and purifies them so as to order them to the Kingdom of heaven; it keeps man from discouragement; it sustains him during times of abandonment; it opens up his heart in expectation of eternal beatitude. Buoyed up by hope, he is preserved from selfishness and led to the happiness that flows from charity. 1819 Christian hope takes up and fulfills the hope of the chosen people which has its origin and model in the hope of Abraham, who was blessed abundantly by the promises of God fulfilled in Isaac, and who was purified by the test of the sacrifice.⁸⁶ "Hoping against hope, he believed, and thus became the father of many nations."⁸⁷ 1820 Christian hope unfolds from the beginning of Jesus' preaching in the proclamation of the beatitudes. The beatitudes raise our hope toward heaven as the new Promised Land; they trace the path that leads through the trials that await the disciples of Jesus. But through the merits of Jesus Christ and of his Passion, God keeps us in the "hope that does not disappoint."⁸⁸ Hope is the "sure and steadfast anchor of the soul . . . that enters . . . where Jesus has gone as a forerunner on our behalf."⁸⁹ Hope is also a weapon that protects us in the struggle of salvation: "Let us . . . put on the breastplate of faith and charity, and for a helmet the hope of salvation."⁹⁰ It affords us joy even under trial: "Rejoice in your hope, be patient in tribulation."⁹¹ Hope is expressed and nourished in prayer, especially in the Our Father, the summary of everything that hope leads us to desire. 1821 We can therefore hope in the glory of heaven promised by God to those who love him and do his will.⁹² In every circumstance, each one of us should hope, with the grace of God, to persevere "to the end"⁹³ and to obtain the joy of heaven, as God's eternal reward for the good works accomplished with the grace of Christ. In hope, the Church prays for "all men to be saved."⁹⁴ She longs to be united with Christ, her Bridegroom, in the glory of heaven: Hope, O my soul, hope. You know neither the day nor the hour. Watch carefully, for everything passes quickly, even though your impatience makes doubtful what is certain, and turns a very short time into a long one. Dream that the more you struggle, the more you prove the love that you bear your God, and the more you will rejoice one day with your Beloved, in a happiness and rapture that can never end.⁹⁵
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littleoneforjesus		#24	[url]	[-]
Posts: 226 06/30/09 22:39:33	CHAPTER ONE THE DIGNITY OF THE HUMAN PERSON ARTICLE 7 THE VIRTUES 1803 "Whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is gracious, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things."⁶² A virtue is an habitual and firm disposition to do the good. It allows the person not only to perform good acts, but to give the best of himself. The virtuous person tends toward the good with all his sensory and spiritual powers; he pursues the good and chooses it in concrete actions. The goal of a virtuous life is to become like God.⁶³ Now isn't that interesting. Sounds like the same thing Satan said. Ge 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? 2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: 3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. 4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. I. THE HUMAN VIRTUES 1804 Human virtues are firm attitudes, stable dispositions, habitual perfections of intellect and will that govern our actions, order our passions, and guide our conduct according to reason and faith. They make possible ease, self-mastery, and joy in leading a morally good life. The virtuous man is he who freely practices the good. The moral virtues are acquired by human effort. They are the fruit and seed of morally good acts; they dispose all the powers of the human being for communion with divine love. Another lie from the pit of hell. Ps 14:1 To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good. Ps 14:3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Ps 53:1 To the chief Musician upon Mahalath, Maschil, A Psalm of David. The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good. Ps 53:3 Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Ro 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. The virtues and grace 1810 Human virtues acquired by education, by deliberate acts and by a perseverance ever-renewed in repeated efforts are purified and elevated by divine grace. With God's help, they forge character and give facility in the practice of the good. The virtuous man is happy to practice them. 1811 It is not easy for man, wounded by sin, to maintain moral balance. Christ's gift of salvation offers us the grace necessary to persevere in the pursuit of the virtues. Everyone should always ask for this grace of light and strength, frequent the sacraments, cooperate with the Holy Spirit, and follow his calls to love what is good and shun evil. More lies!!!! Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Eph 2:5; Ro 3:24; 2Th 1:9 II. THE THEOLOGICAL VIRTUES 1812 The human virtues are rooted in the theological virtues, which adapt man's faculties for participation in the divine nature:⁷⁶ for the theological virtues relate directly to God. They dispose Christians to live in a relationship with the Holy Trinity. They have the One and Triune God for their origin, motive, and object. 1813 The theological virtues are the foundation of Christian moral activity; they animate it and give it its special character. They inform and give life to all the moral virtues. They are infused by God into the souls of the faithful to make them capable of acting as his children and of meriting eternal life. They are the pledge of the presence and action of the Holy Spirit in the faculties of the human being. There are three theological virtues: faith, hope, and charity.⁷⁷ ...What a crock of horse hockey pucks!! First of all God does not INFUSE us with anything, He GIVES grace freely when we trust in Christ alone. Secondly it is the HOLY SPIRIT who enables us to live holy lives, not we ourselves. The pledge IS the HOLY SPIRIT to will and to do of His Good Pleasure. The RCC talks as if it is just a mere book. GOD inspired those words for our benefit to bring HIM glory for HIS NAMES sake. I am not even going to bother with the rest it is so repugnant.
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DougErd		#25	[url]	[-]
Posts: 4379 06/30/09 22:40:01 Moderator	The Catholic Church claims to be the religion to offer 'hope' The Word of God states one can be 'sure', when you believe in the name of Jesus Christ...... 1JN 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life. Two totally different gospels....
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Attira		#26	[url]	[-]
Posts: 260 06/30/09 23:10:03	littleoneforjesus wrote: CHAPTER ONE THE DIGNITY OF THE HUMAN PERSON ARTICLE 7 THE VIRTUES 1803 "Whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is gracious, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things."⁶² A virtue is an habitual and firm disposition to do the good. It allows the person not only to perform good acts, but to give the best of himself. The virtuous person tends toward the good with all his sensory and spiritual powers; he pursues the good and chooses it in concrete actions. The goal of a virtuous life is to become like God.⁶³ Now isn't that interesting. Sounds like the same thing Satan said. Ge 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? 2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: 3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. 4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. I. THE HUMAN VIRTUES 1804 Human virtues are firm attitudes, stable dispositions, habitual perfections of intellect and will that govern our actions, order our passions, and guide our conduct according to reason and faith. They make possible ease, self-mastery, and joy in leading a morally good life. The virtuous man is he who freely practices the good. The moral virtues are acquired by human effort. They are the fruit and seed of morally good acts; they dispose all the powers of the human being for communion with divine love. Another lie from the pit of hell. Ps 14:1 To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good. Ps 14:3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Ps 53:1 To the chief Musician upon Mahalath, Maschil, A Psalm of David. The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good. Ps 53:3 Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Ro 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. The virtues and grace 1810 Human virtues acquired by education, by deliberate acts and by a perseverance ever-renewed in repeated efforts are purified and elevated by divine grace. With God's help, they forge character and give facility in the practice of the good. The virtuous man is happy to practice them. 1811 It is not easy for man, wounded by sin, to maintain moral balance. Christ's gift of salvation offers us the grace necessary to persevere in the pursuit of the virtues. Everyone should always ask for this grace of light and strength, frequent the sacraments, cooperate with the Holy Spirit, and follow his calls to love what is good and shun evil. More lies!!!! Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Eph 2:5; Ro 3:24; 2Th 1:9 II. THE THEOLOGICAL VIRTUES 1812 The human virtues are rooted in the theological virtues, which adapt man's faculties for participation in the divine nature:⁷⁶ for the theological virtues relate directly to God. They dispose Christians to live in a relationship with the Holy Trinity. They have the One and Triune God for their origin, motive, and object. 1813 The theological virtues are the foundation of Christian moral activity; they animate it and give it its special character. They inform and give life to all the moral virtues. They are infused by God into the souls of the faithful to make them capable of acting as his children and of meriting eternal life. They are the pledge of the presence and action of the Holy Spirit in the faculties of the human being. There are three theological virtues: faith, hope, and charity.⁷⁷ ...What a crock of horse hockey pucks!! First of all God does not INFUSE us with anything, He GIVES grace freely when we trust in Christ alone. Secondly it is the HOLY SPIRIT who enables us to live holy lives, not we ourselves. The pledge IS the HOLY SPIRIT to will and to do of His Good Pleasure. The RCC talks as if it is just a mere book. GOD inspired those words for our benefit to bring HIM glory for HIS NAMES sake. I am not even going to bother with the rest it is so repugnant. Some quick impressions: 1. You apparently didn't read the passage from Genesis, you missed the key phrase: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. 2. You seem to be repelled by the idea of holiness, becoming perfect as the Lord God is perfect ("The goal of a virtuous life is to become like God.^{" - "}Now isn't that interesting. Sounds like the same thing Satan said." etc. (see your responses to 1812, 1813) 3. You apparently don't believe following Christ has any effect at all on a person, see your response to 1810 & 1811 Are you an atheist?
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Sasha2uu.biblicalchristi...		#27	[url]	[-]
Posts: 907 07/01/09 06:01:34	Are you an atheist? Wow....speak "bible" and they think you're an athiest. Just more absolute proof that the catholics/orthodox would nail Jesus to the cross all over again if He were to walk amongst us. Why? Because they don't know Him.
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